Battery does condition w/o plug
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NORTON said:
It was up a couple posts, and theoretical until somebody confirms, but the idea is to plug the car in at mid-capacity, immediately cancel the charge, and leave the cord plugged in.
It will not be charging, but since it is still plugged in, the car should pull power through the EVSE if conditioning is needed.
Wouldn't that just cancel any current flow forever?67goat said:
Same with "delayed charge" programming. The idea is to not draw power during peak hours to save on electron costs.
Someone should test this! I only plug in at home when it's seriously cold....
NORTON said:
Canceling the charge only does that, the car is still plugged into power, and will draw current from there for any conditioning operation.
Charging and conditioning are independent, canceling one does not cancel the other.
MrDRMorgan
Well-known member
67goat said:
Correct! Page 9-37 states, "The system may be thermally conditioning the battery during any of the states above, requiring electrical energy to be transferred to the vehicle." The CSI states mentioned "above" are Solid Green, Slow Flashing Green, Fast Flashing Green, Solid Yellow.
Page 5-26 states, "Delayed charge can be overridden from outside the vehicle by plugging in the vehicle, disconnecting the connector, and the immediately plugging back in again."
MrDRMorgan
Well-known member
I record a lot of data for my 2014 and 2015 Spark EVs at each charging session so I can look for trends - specifically battery degradation. As I have followed these discussions on battery conditioning, I realized there IS a difference between my 2014 and 2015 Spark EVs. Specifically, in 115 charging sessions recorded over the last 15 months, the Energy Information screen in my 2014 Spark EV has never shown anything other that 0% for conditioning.
What I recently discovered is this: if the car is fully charged and, in the evening I reset my power meter, plug in the L1 EVSE that came with the car, and, with the garage temperature at 90 deg. F or higher, the next morning my power meter shows the car used 0.350 kWh. When the garage temperature is lower than 90 deg. F, the power meter shows almost 0.00 kWh.
On the other hand, the data I have for 130 charging sessions for my 2015 spark EV shows 13 different occasions when conditioning was above 0% and always in hot [>90 deg. F] weather and always happening while the car was being driven. I will have to fully charge the 2015 and connect it to the L1 EVSE to see if it does the same as the 2014.
My question is this: for those of you who have 2014 Spark EVs, have you ever seen any value for COND other than 0% on your Energy Information screen? I am not sure if I have a problem or not but it does not look like conditioning has ever taken place while I have been driving the car. I do not see any impact on the battery as at this time of the year my GOM is running ~111 miles after a full charge - same as this time last year.
What I recently discovered is this: if the car is fully charged and, in the evening I reset my power meter, plug in the L1 EVSE that came with the car, and, with the garage temperature at 90 deg. F or higher, the next morning my power meter shows the car used 0.350 kWh. When the garage temperature is lower than 90 deg. F, the power meter shows almost 0.00 kWh.
On the other hand, the data I have for 130 charging sessions for my 2015 spark EV shows 13 different occasions when conditioning was above 0% and always in hot [>90 deg. F] weather and always happening while the car was being driven. I will have to fully charge the 2015 and connect it to the L1 EVSE to see if it does the same as the 2014.
My question is this: for those of you who have 2014 Spark EVs, have you ever seen any value for COND other than 0% on your Energy Information screen? I am not sure if I have a problem or not but it does not look like conditioning has ever taken place while I have been driving the car. I do not see any impact on the battery as at this time of the year my GOM is running ~111 miles after a full charge - same as this time last year.
I haven't paid much attention to the battery conditioning while the car is charging or parked. I do know that the car uses more energy when I drive it on hot days.
I think the battery uses 40% more energy on my drive home from work, than it does in the morning. Probably because the air conditioning must work harder in the afternoons.
I drive a 2014 Spark EV, that had around 13,000 miles on it. So far the battery capacity seems about normal. On a full charge it will show 85 miles.
I think the battery uses 40% more energy on my drive home from work, than it does in the morning. Probably because the air conditioning must work harder in the afternoons.
I drive a 2014 Spark EV, that had around 13,000 miles on it. So far the battery capacity seems about normal. On a full charge it will show 85 miles.
MrDRMorgan
Well-known member
ncerna said:
Before you recharge the battery, go to your Energy Information screen [press the LEAF button] and check the percentages for DRIVE, CLIMATE and COND. Do you see anything other than 0 for COND.?
Don't have a 14, but I only ever see COND over 0 while driving when temp is over 101 outside, and never more than 1% for a single charge (sometimes over if I do not top off to reset for a few days). I never see it over zero if comes on while plugged in (unless it was already over 0).
Also, unless I am on a long drive, it only changes during the first 5-15min of the drive (and usually only if I wasn't parked in the shade and wasn't plugged in). I don't know if that is because there is some air cooling or if my having the AC on stops the need for the TMS to stay on. If that were the case and you usually preconditioned your 14, that could explain it. I almost always forget to precondition the cab until I am already too close to the car to make a significant difference.
Also, unless I am on a long drive, it only changes during the first 5-15min of the drive (and usually only if I wasn't parked in the shade and wasn't plugged in). I don't know if that is because there is some air cooling or if my having the AC on stops the need for the TMS to stay on. If that were the case and you usually preconditioned your 14, that could explain it. I almost always forget to precondition the cab until I am already too close to the car to make a significant difference.
MrDRMorgan
Well-known member
67goat said:
The highest COND percentage I have seen for my 2015 Spark EV is 4% with most being 1% and always while the car is being driven. (note: I will have to check to see if the COND % goes up if I leave the 2015 fully charged and unplugged during a hot night) Late yesterday afternoon, I fully charged my 2015 and left it connected to my L1 EVSE. Garage temperature was 100 deg. F and outside reached 107 deg. F. This morning the power meter I have the L1 EVSE plugged into showed the car had used a total of 1.75 kWh overnight. I assume this power was used for cooling the battery. All of this does support leaving the car plugged in during hot weather > 90 deg. F.
I agree with this, especially since it seems like the car will not use battery power for TMS when not plugged in.MrDRMorgan said:
afaik, only one EV brand does use battery power for TMS from 100% down to 80% and then stops using power that way.
So ends my cheap ass streak of only plugging in at work during the AM.
I plug in at home in the dead of winter and now I should in the dead of summer too.
I have seen COND at 4% for a commute home once in the very cold winter when I unplugged my car at noon and moved to my work parking lot and it sat for ~6 hrs.
I suspect in the summer you don't see COND displayed more (during drive cycles) is because you have the AC running anyway because of the heat and there is no way to separate out the freon cooling to the cabin vs. to the battery coolant heat exchanger under the hood (they're in series).
IF you left the car topped up, but unplugged for a half day or more in hot conditions and ,
IF you were a tough guy and could drive the car without AC ,
you might see a COND % number.
Which means you started that trip with the battery temp NOT in the happy zone and you used that battery pack while it was HOT but trying to cool itself down.
Same as me using it too COLD during the start of my commute home in the dead of winter.
Both of these situations are not ideal for the Health and Well Being of the pack.
MrDRMorgan
Well-known member
NORTON said:I agree with this, especially since it seems like the car will not use battery power for TMS when not plugged in.MrDRMorgan said:
afaik, only one EV brand does use battery power for TMS from 100% down to 80% and then stops using power that way.
So ends my cheap ass streak of only plugging in at work during the AM.
I plug in at home in the dead of winter and now I should in the dead of summer too.
I have seen COND at 4% for a commute home once in the very cold winter when I unplugged my car at noon and moved to my work parking lot and it sat for ~6 hrs.
I suspect in the summer you don't see COND displayed more (during drive cycles) is because you have the AC running anyway because of the heat and there is no way to separate out the freon cooling to the cabin vs. to the battery coolant heat exchanger under the hood (they're in series).
IF you left the car topped up, but unplugged for a half day or more in hot conditions and ,
IF you were a tough guy and could drive the car without AC ,
you might see a COND % number.
Which means you started that trip with the battery temp NOT in the happy zone and you used that battery pack while it was HOT but trying to cool itself down.
Same as me using it too COLD during the start of my commute home in the dead of winter.
Both of these situations are not ideal for the Health and Well Being of the pack.
It is interesting what we are finding. During the hot summers for the last two years I too have not plugged in my 2014 nor my 2015 Spark EV to keep the battery pack cool. That changed this week. This morning I reset the power meter, which has been monitoring my fully charged 2015, to 0.00 kWh. I noticed at 1pm today the 2015 had drawn .19 kWh after being 0.00 all morning. My garage temp is now just over 90 deg. F and will probably get close to 100 deg. F. by this evening. The current outside temp is just over 100 deg. F. and is going to be 107 deg. F or higher today.
I am not a tough guy! I set the AC to 75 deg. F in the AUTO mode and enjoy the comfort. It works just great!
7/9/16: [2014 Spark EV] OK. Here is the final piece of the TMS puzzle. In order for the TMS to work when the car is plugged in, the charge mode must be set to IMMEDIATE. I started out with the DELAYED charge mode and no power was being drawn by the car even though my garage was at 99 deg. F and the outside temp was 103 deg. F. I unplugged the car, switched the charge mode to IMMEDIATE and plugged the car back in. The fan(s) immediately came on and the power meter showed the car was now pulling power.
It's 100 degrees F here in Los Angeles. I drove my car for about an hour.
I checked the LEAF, and it shows the battery used 1% for battery conditioning.
Normally, after I charge, I check the stats, and it shows 0% for battery conditioning.
I checked the LEAF, and it shows the battery used 1% for battery conditioning.
Normally, after I charge, I check the stats, and it shows 0% for battery conditioning.
MrDRMorgan
Well-known member
ncerna said:
What year of Spark EV do you have?
MrDRMorgan
Well-known member
Interesting! I too have a 2014 and live in Central California where it also gets over 100 deg. F. I have never seen my Energy Information Screen show anything other than 0%. On the other hand, my 2015 has shown 1% to 3% a number of times in hot weather. I am trying to figure out if I have a problem in the TMS for the 2014 or not.ncerna said:
I have a 2014 and am in the SF Bay area, and I dont think I have seen conditioning, apart may be once in winter.
I really dont think that the temperature gets extreme enough here.
Also remember the battery pack is different on the 2014 and the 2015 +, so it may not need the same level of conditioning.
I really dont think that the temperature gets extreme enough here.
Also remember the battery pack is different on the 2014 and the 2015 +, so it may not need the same level of conditioning.
MrDRMorgan
Well-known member
scrambler said:
From what I have been seeing, the air temperature has to be 95 deg. F or higher for a while before the TMS starts kicking in - true for both my 2014 and 2015 Spark EVs.