DC fast charging: J1772 CCS vs CHAdeMO vs Supercharger, etc.

[Anonymous]

Hello,

We would like to let everyone know BTCPower has installed 2 SAE Quick charge stations in Irvine.

However, we would like to let everyone know the SAE charger output is not yet enabled.

Once these systems are enabled we will post another note on this forum as well as on plug share.

We apologize for any inconvenience and look forward to serving all of you shortly.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Thank you for chiming in. Perhaps consider chiming in at https://www.facebook.com/groups/BayLeafs/permalink/612746398783025/?stream_ref=3, if in fact this from your company. (It's a DC FC found in Benicia, CA that looks real similar to http://btcpower.com/products-and-applications/EV-Fast-Charger/.)

 

[psykokid]

Hello,

We would like to let everyone know BTCPower has installed 2 SAE Quick charge stations in Irvine.

However, we would like to let everyone know the SAE charger output is not yet enabled.

Once these systems are enabled we will post another note on this forum as well as on plug share.

We apologize for any inconvenience and look forward to serving all of you shortly.

Dave?

My only quibble about the SAE side not being labled "coming soon" or something along those lines both on plugshare and on the machine itself is that I spent a lot of time waiting when I expected to be happily on my way. Inconvenient? Yes. End of the world? Nope still here. I would have stopped there on my way back regardless as it was the first really readily accessible station near the top of my range, plus there was a Starbucks there so could have some coffee while I waited. It would have been nice though to know that i needed to budget 4 or so hours of my time vs 20 min. I would have made sure I had some reading material or brought my laptop and futzed around on that whilst I waited to charge to get enough range to make it home.

Regardless, glad to see you guys are supporting both charge connections on your DC charge stations. Everything that helps make quick charging more accessible will give the people with range anxiety a little reassurance that they'll be able to top off and be on their way and that may help sway people who otherwise wouldn't have gotten a BEV for those "what if" situations.

 

[cwerdna]

Dave?

LOL! 2001 reference? (Not that I've ever seen the movie.)

 

[psykokid]

Dave?

LOL! 2001 reference? (Not that I've ever seen the movie.)

Lol.. No the guy that was on plug share in connection with the quick chargers at the Irvine properties name was Dave.

 

[cwerdna]

Relating to Superchargers...

I haven't been following this but apparently a father, daughter team completed a coast-to-coast trip in a Model S, using Superchargers only, all for $0 of juice.

http://insideevs.com/first-ever-supercharged-tesla-model-s-coast-to-coast-road-trip-is-complete/

And, Tesla has sent off two cars tonight. See below.
https://www.facebook.com/teslamotors/posts/10100787274113406?stream_ref=10 from 11 hours ago says:

Tesla Motors · 352,991 like this
11 hours ago ·

The record-setting Coast to Coast Rally using our #Supercharger network begins tonight!
At midnight, a Tesla Motors team will depart Los Angeles en route to New York City aiming to set a new Guinness World Records achievement for lowest charge time for an electric vehicle traveling across the United States. #DriveFree
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/cross-country-rally

The above link says

At midnight tonight, a Tesla Motors team will depart Los Angeles en route to New York City in two Model S sedans to mark the completion of the first cross country Supercharger route. We're aiming to complete the journey within about three days and set a new GUINNESS WORLD RECORDS achievement for lowest charge time for an electric vehicle traveling across the United States.

We energized the final Supercharger in the cross country route last week, marking the completion of a network that spans more than 3,400 miles. There are now more than 70 Supercharger sites around the US, at which Model S owners can charge for free. A Supercharger takes as little as 20 minutes to replenish half a charge.

The Cross Country Rally team will gather tonight at the Tesla design studio in Hawthorne, Los Angeles, for a launch event, before starting the drive at 12.01am on Thursday. The trip will take the cars through mid-winter conditions across the middle of the country, with stops only at Superchargers.

We'll be posting daily updates to our blog so you can follow the team's progress as we attempt to set the record. Stay tuned!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47800.166146.18790602800&type=1&stream_ref=10 has a pic of them departing at around midnight.

This is what happens when an EV company is serious and doing.

 

[TonyWilliams]

This is what happens when an EV company is serious and doing.

And here's what happens when they're not:

http://insideevs.com/bmw-ceo-us-i3-sales-to-be-a-couple-thousand-in-2014/

It appears the only savior for a Franken-future, BMW, is only going to deliver "a couple thousand" of their BMW i3's in 2014. We already know the GM play book of minimum compliance sales of the Spark EV, which means that the only two Frankenplug bloc auto manufacturers who had any chance at all in being in the EV business are both just supplying the bares bones minimum for California Air Resources Board compliance.

Just like the old, " No bucks, no Buck Rogers", the new line is "No cars with plugs, no Frankenplugs".

Simply put, nobody (except government or government deals like NRG/eVgo) is going to lay out the cash to support Frankenplug stations when it's OBVIOUS that there won't be any cars in volume.

Yes, in California, you'll still get 200 stations, each with CHAdeMO and Frankenplug in four major metro areas (SD, SF, LA, Sacto) in four years.

 

[NomadMac]

This is what happens when an EV company is serious and doing.

Yes, in California, you'll still get 200 stations, each with CHAdeMO and Frankenplug in four major metro areas (SD, SF, LA, Sacto) in four years.

I note that the eVgo that opened near me in San Rafael within the last 30 days does not have CCS. If it had, I probably would have opted to get mine with CCS.

 

[gra]

This is what happens when an EV company is serious and doing.

Yes, in California, you'll still get 200 stations, each with CHAdeMO and Frankenplug in four major metro areas (SD, SF, LA, Sacto) in four years.

I note that the eVgo that opened near me in San Rafael within the last 30 days does not have CCS. If it had, I probably would have opted to get mine with CCS.

Perhaps you missed this (or maybe you just don't believe them; it's too early for them to have established much of a track record here):

"All of eVgo’s charging sites will eventually have a combo plug, said O’Day. “We are planning our combo rollout,” he said. “We will make an announcement in the next couple of months. You can look at the Freedom Network that we have announced and you can think of that as the combo network that is coming.”

http://www.plugincars.com/evgo-has-13-public-charging-stations-california-and-counting-129314.html

To date, eVgo's QC location choices in the Bay Area have been far better than was the case with Blink or Nissan. Unfortunately, they're all still singles.

 

[NomadMac]

I did miss that announcement, thank you. But the proof is in the execution.
Seems kind of inefficient to create a new station and not put in CCS at the same time, if that's one's stated goal.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I did miss that announcement, thank you. But the proof is in the execution.
Seems kind of inefficient to create a new station and not put in CCS at the same time, if that's one's stated goal.

NRG absolutely will install them, whether anybody builds Frankenplug cars or not. It's NRG's contractual obligation, and they have plenty of Manley to see it through.

There's nothing new in that announcement. Yes, the 200 "Freedom Stations" will have a Frankenplug within four years. Look at the location you saw again; I'll bet there's an available spot if you looked.

YOU WILL GET THE FRANKENPLUG IN CALIFORNIA !!!

 

[cwerdna]

Update from http://www.chademo.com/ on 1/31/14.

The number of CHAdeMO DC Quick chargers installed up to today is 3533.
-- (Japan 1,967 Europe 1000 USA 554 Others 12) last update 2014.01.31

From the press release at http://www.chademo.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/2014-1-13_CHAdeMO_2013_installation.pdf

31/1/2014
CHADEMO FAST CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE CONTINUES ITS STEEP GROWTH: EUROPEAN INSTALLATION REACHES THE 1000 MARK

2013 was yet another year of steep growth for CHAdeMO-certified fast chargers in Europe. The total number of CHAdeMO fast chargers in Europe has reached the 1000 bar, demonstrating a 70% growth from the previous year.

A strong growth in the number of CHAdeMO fast chargers installed was seen in all parts of the world. In one year from January 2013 to January 2014, the number increased:

Japan: 1381 => 1967 (+42%)
Europe: 601 => 1020 (+70%)
USA: 154 => 554 (+360%)

With this, the overall CHAdeMO installation count has reached over 3500 globally, confirming CHAdeMO as the global leader and the only widely commercialised fast charging technology. These CHAdeMO fast chargers serve over 131,000 EV drivers, accounting two thirds of the passenger EV market today*.

On the note of Tesla's rally using Superchargers, I'm looking at https://twitter.com/TeslaMotors and they've made it to WI already.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The number of CHAdeMO DC Quick chargers installed up to today is 3533.

Japan 1,967 CHAdeMO - 0 Frankenplug

Europe 1000 CHAdeMO - 20? Frankenplug that are incompatible with USA

USA 554 CHAdeMO - 6 Frankenplug that are incompatible with Europe

Others 12 CHAdeMO - 0 Frankenplug

 

[gra]

I did miss that announcement, thank you. But the proof is in the execution.
Seems kind of inefficient to create a new station and not put in CCS at the same time, if that's one's stated goal.

I agree it's inefficient, but suspect they were stuck by the requirements of the settlement. They had to install a certain number of QCs by certain dates, but IIRR were only required to include CCS when there was at least one car on sale that could use them and at least two UL or similar lab-tested CCS chargers (from different companies) available. I know Tony has posted the exact wording of the CCS requirement somewhere, but am too lazy to search for it.

 

[gra]

The number of CHAdeMO DC Quick chargers installed up to today is 3533.

Japan 1,967 CHAdeMO - 0 Frankenplug

Europe 1000 CHAdeMO - 20? Frankenplug that are incompatible with USA

USA 554 CHAdeMO - 6 Frankenplug that are incompatible with Europe

Others 12 CHAdeMO - 0 Frankenplug

And for completeness, let's not forget Tesla Superchargers:

USA: 73 locations with 470 stalls
Europe: 14 locations with 93 stalls

They'll be passing CHAdeMO in the U.S. soon, I expect, and they're certainly deployed better (except for the ones in South Dakota and Wyoming), as they're all accessible 24/7 and usually outside the major urban areas. So far, the NRG deployment locations in the Bay Area seem to be a lot more useful and less haphazard than the CHAdeMO deployment by Ecotality, Nissan and others. Admittedly, they had more time and experience to base their decisions on, but in far too many cases CHAdeMO was put in not where it made sense, but rather wherever Ecotality or Nissan could convince someone to accept one. This has meant that a lot of the CHAdeMO locations are out of the way and/or unavailable when needed. So far, NRG seems to be avoiding this. Of course, if they don't get their pricing in line with what people are willing to pay, it won't make any difference.

 

[TonyWilliams]

And for completeness, let's not forget Tesla Superchargers:

USA: 73 locations with 470 stalls
Europe: 14 locations with 93 stalls

They'll be passing CHAdeMO in the U.S. soon...

Tesla is the "real deal" on a mission. I concur with them easily passing CHAdeMO in the USA.

The comments about Ecotality and Nissan are spot on.

With nobody promoting Frankenplug, and only 6 installed, Frankenolug isn't even in the running.

 

[cwerdna]

FWIW, I test drove the BMW i3 2x at CES in Vegas. BMW had brought along multiple ABB J1772 CCS DC FCs. I forgot the count but there were at least 4 and they were for charging their test drive vehicles. IIRC, I heard there were 45 vehicles for test drive.

They had only 20 kW max output (I'll have to take a look at my pics later). They were not permanently installed and IIRC, they were all gone when I walked by the parking lot hours after the show ended for the year.

I put up pics of these units that I took at https://picasaweb.google.com/105684180251177299188/CES2014?authkey=Gv1sRgCIXR0p_PwbjOUA.

 

[cwerdna]

On the note of Tesla's rally using Superchargers, I'm looking at https://twitter.com/TeslaMotors and they've made it to WI already.

And, from https://twitter.com/TeslaMotors/, the team made it to NYC 7 hours ago. They posted a group photo of the team and Elon Musk.

 

[gra]

And for completeness, let's not forget Tesla Superchargers:

USA: 73 locations with 470 stalls
Europe: 14 locations with 93 stalls

They'll be passing CHAdeMO in the U.S. soon...

Tesla is the "real deal" on a mission. I concur with them easily passing CHAdeMO in the USA.

The comments about Ecotality and Nissan are spot on.

With nobody promoting Frankenplug, and only 6 installed, Frankenolug isn't even in the running.

Well, considering that there are now four CCS (not all operational) in California compared to one CHAdeMO (Mitsubishi's) at a similar stage of deployment, they're not doing too badly here. But we're agreed that if it doesn't get support beyond the (state) government mandating it, it will fail. We'll just have to see how things play out - I suspect it will only take one runaway winner of a car to get a manufacturer solidly behind it. At the moment there doesn't appear to be one on the horizon ala the Tesla S, and no other current BEV fits that description. IMO the Spark lacks only one thing to make it the go-to value among sub-$40k commuter/short-range regional BEVs - a faster OBC. It's got all the other critical features - liquid-cooled and heated TMS, battery chemistry with better heat tolerance and better cycle life, better range than its competitors, 'B' mode, better accel, five doors for when you need them, small size.

For urban-only cars, we may well see the iMiEV break out this year in California and other states with their own incentives. For those who can live with its range, it's a hell of a deal.

 

[cwerdna]

And, from https://twitter.com/TeslaMotors/, the team made it to NYC 7 hours ago. They posted a group photo of the team and Elon Musk.

I was annoyed that the local news (NBC Bay Area News) mentioned the trip but kept referring to the Supercharger stations has "turbocharger" :roll: stations. And, they didn't bother mentioning that they only used the Superchargers along the way and that they're free, provided your car has Supercharger access.